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kabarnosofficial" rel="nofollow">https://youtube.com/@kabarnosofficial
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That’s good to know, let me know when you do
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i didnt say they were uniates, i said they were glorified uniates (with extra steps)
matter of fact given that some ocu "parishes" use the filioque in their creeds they are worse than uniates
The latter one is what fuelled the tensions which started the persecution there and in 2022 Russia intervened. It’s not about Putin or even Russia in a nationalistic sense, this is a spiritual war which is about uprooting Holy Rus, which St Laurence of Chernigov says comprises of Russia, Belarus and Ukraine. So your ‘Russian aggression’ claim can only refer to the Russian response to them being threatened and attacked, while your attitude of being hostile towards anyone who has any sympathies for the canonical UOC, is disturbing and frankly blasphemous.
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Cool strawman, here's your favourite schismatic pseudobishop.
Also, quotation marks tend to be used around a quote. I haven't called the West satanic at any point.
Subversion must be a prerequisite of your position.
Well, yes, I suppose you could take the view that everything is an evil ruse by the "Satanic West" and the Russians have no share of the blame for the present situation. That would be the willfully ignorant view. I have no desire to be smugly lectured on why Ukrainians should bow to a Moscow Patriarchate which explicitly calls for their destruction as a nation of people and proclaims "holy war" on them in its officially published statements.
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The OCU aren't Uniates, though. They are an autocephalous Eastern Orthodox Church with full recognition from the Ecumenical Patriarchate and 3 other local Churches. People like the Old Calendarists are more unanimously regarded as schismatics but this issue is a more controversial one. I'm personally more partial to the cause of the OCU and EP as if you support the Moscow Patriarchate in this issue you basically either support or turn a blind eye to Russian aggression in Ukraine.
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she is pro: ecumenism, the schismatics in ukraine, alphabet soup
she is extremely worldly for someone that is supposed to be a monastic etc
Old calendarists in Greece tend to take in the priests that didnt pass in the canonical church of Greece.
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She was a monastic! Of course she had her obediences which included wearing her ryassa.
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I’m off up to Beijing next month so I’m looking forward to that
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Well, I'll be back round those parts soon enough
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It’s not about viewing matters through such a binary view as you’ve stipulated, no one serious is saying what you are as all humans are fallen, this sounds like a typical ad hominem attack to try to stir up the passions of people with genuine conviction for their Church and by extension Christ.
The only person here being smug is yourself.
You haven’t been insulted yet you claim to have been and you insult others at the same time - Pharisaical behaviour that violates our rules on showing love and compassion, avoiding negativity, no circular debates and no political debates, let alone multiple Commandments and proper Church dogma.
Correct yourself or you will be removed from the chat, if you can’t show the most basic charity and humility to understand your own fault and wrongdoing here.
1. True, the OCU are not Uniates, but they are schismatics and actually a congregation set up by the CIA, which its Director explicitly admitted to.
https://orthochristian.com/139170.html
2. They were granted the tomos of autocephaly by Patriarch Bartholomew, who does not have the authority to do so, given the territory of Ukraine governed by the Ukrainian Orthodox Church has been under the Moscow Patriarchate as an autonomous jurisdiction since 1991, following the collapse of the Soviet Union when Ukraine was one of the breakaway republics. We are not Papists where supposed primacy of a See means the power to overrule other canonical jurisdictions, this is a violation of the Holy Canons which do not allow infringement of ecclesiastical authority into other jurisdictions. These Canons were determined at the Ecumenical Councils, binding for all of Holy Orthodoxy and guided by the Holy Spirit no less. The Second Ecumenical Council specifically deals with this issue:
Canon II ‘The bishops are not to go beyond their dioceses to churches lying outside of their bounds, nor bring confusion on the churches; but let the Bishop of Alexandria, according to the canons, alone administer the affairs of Egypt; and let the bishops of the East manage the East alone, the privileges of the Church in Antioch, which are mentioned in the canons of Nice, being preserved; and let the bishops of the Asian Diocese administer the Asian affairs only; and the Pontic bishops only Pontic matters; and the Thracian bishops only Thracian affairs. And let not bishops go beyond their dioceses for ordination or any other ecclesiastical ministrations, unless they be invited. And the aforesaid canon concerning dioceses being observed, it is evident that the synod of every province will administer the affairs of that particular province as was decreed at Nice. But the Churches of God in heathen nations must be governed according to the custom which has prevailed from the times of the Fathers.’
The Holy Canons are interpreted contextually, thus this Canon while binding, was produced in 381, so it would not have referred the current 20-21st century dispute explicitly but be able to inform us of the proper canonical method to approach this.
So in sum, it doesn’t matter that the EP and three other local Churches recognise it, it’s not their ecclesiastical territory, which has long known to belong to the UOC led by His Eminence Metropolitan Onufriy.
We do not handle our affairs like Protestants, who can make decisions on a whim based upon their own autonomous starting points, nor the Papists, who allow for a man to be not just ‘supreme’ but to logically follow ‘infallible’, rather we must abide by the Holy Tradition, which constitutes the Holy Canons, the Holy Fathers, the Ecumenical Councils and more, so that we are of one mind with unity of Faith to the Head of the Church in Christ, as members of the Body.
3. Old Calendarists are schismatics, because they make the calendar out to be a dogmatic issue, when it is a tradition of the Church. This is more ‘controversial’ as there are blatant abuses being committed by bishops in the Sees of Constantinople and Alexandria, where instead of supporting persecuted brethren, they are supporting defrocked schismatics and political puppets.
4. You’re referring more to a geopolitical issue then a Church one strictly speaking, but it’s clear fact that Russia have warned for decades now about encroaching NATO expansion since President Bush Srs infamous ‘promise’ of no expansion eastward after the fall of the Soviet Union, just like how he said “no new taxes” and see how that worked out (fun fact: he also said we need a New World Order in Congress and Presidential addresses, as well was a former CIA Director himself under President Ford). This is also clear by statements made by President Putin in 2007 at the Munich Security Conference. Meanwhile there have been Revolutions on Russian borders and attacks on Russian territory in or from the post Soviet republics in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2008 and 2014.
The OCU is not a church. They are defrocked clergy who refused to repent of their disobedience, formed a schismatic pseduochurch, were unrecognised by the EP, despite petitions to him for years, but in 2018 when it became politically expedient for the US state department to divide and conquer ukraine, the CIA put the pressure on the EP, and he did a 180 on the whole situation.
For you to imply that tbe majority of the people in this group support needless fratricidal strife is either wilfully ignorant or immensely stupid. May God have mercy on you
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she is apparently also pro- womans ordination
so (especially with the joining the ocu) she is basically a glorified uniate (but with extra steps)
It was good. Was a bit tired because I'm recovering from a cold but we've been blessed with sunny weather.
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I mean being a nun in rocor trying to be a teacher at a ocu theological school? I don’t see why they wouldn’t accept her after being kicked out as a nun in rocor
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Welcome to UK & Ireland Orthodox. Please introduce yourself, are you Orthodox and where do you come from? How did you find this group chat? 🇬🇧☦
Please respond to this message in 15 minutes or you will be removed to help defend against bots.
• Show Love and Compassion - There is no greater commandment than love. All messages should be sent with love of neighbour
• Avoid Negativity - Avoid leaving negative comments. In the majority of cases, if you have nothing nice to say, just don't say it.
• No Circular Debates - Many discussions just go round and round over the same points and it bears no fruit and causes distress for others. This has to stop.
• No Political Debates - Political Debates are futile, a brief conversation is acceptable and sometimes politics overlaps with our Faith and is therefore relevant. However, at a certain point it has to stop and should not be in regards to unrelated matters.
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Posts to be encouraged:
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Her statement on Facebook included her whining about her hierarch telling her how to dress.
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