Wasabi Wallet

21 Aug 2024 02:21

❗️NEVER share your 12 word recovery seed with anyone, scammers who are pretending to be admins DM you❗️

Wasabi is an open source, non custodial Bitcoin wallet for desktop. Your transactions are made private by default using coinjoins, Tor, and block filters.

Here you can ask for support and discuss Bitcoin related topics with the community. Make sure to check out our help docs for solutions to common problems and more information.

🔺 Be careful of phishing sites in search engine results with similar domain names, the official website is wasabiwallet.io 🔗

Wasabi Wallet

21 Aug 2024 02:01

Wasabi is focused on being easy to use and hard to make mistakes with. Although there's ways you can manually interfere with Wasabi's autocoinjoining bot to restrict the amount of UTXOs you have, these changes involve some sort of tradeoff with privacy. BTCPay Server's coinjoin plugin fills the gap you are looking for by allowing full flexibility with coinjoins even if it might be a risky privacy operation.

BTCPay Server's "Pay in coinjoin" feature can mimic Joinmarket's tumbler, but this feature is currently only available in Wasabi using the RPC. There's also a "coinjoin to another wallet" feature in Wasabi, but emptying your hot wallet this way will still create a handful of UTXOs.

Also, I don't think it's very reckless if you were to spend 30+ UTXOs at once that have been coinjoined. There's some marginal privacy loss involved with consolidating coinjoin outputs, but it should be safe for small or medium sized amounts that have remixed at least once.

Wasabi Wallet

21 Aug 2024 01:44

You can try coinjoining with Trezor if you want to avoid the risks of keeping your funds on a hot wallet. Trezor's implementation also registers up to 20 inputs in a coinjoin round as opposed to 10 in Wasabi, so you'll end up with fewer UTXOs.

@kevinrav has instructions on reactivating coinjoins in Trezor here: https://wasabi.kravens.nl/#trezor

However, as far as I know Trezor compatibility with my coordinator is broken, so you can only use it with people running the BTCPay version of the coordinator.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:57

i'll give it a look ty ^^

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:55

If you put 1 or 2 BTC make sense have 20 UTXOs but if you put lower amount is slightly non-sense. It's good for the protocol because tons of small outputs create more anonimity set but is a pain to manage 😅

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:53

i'm mainly a jm user but i'm giving a deeper look to wasabi because it's really cheap atm but i'm really hating that i can't choose to consolidate doing CJs but it mainly create more and more UTXOS

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:50

Coinjoins don't just break down your big UTXOs into small UTXOs though, you can also use a coinjoin to consolidate small UTXOs into big ones.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 19:10

Is there a way to know or estimate the number of utxo i will have after a coinjoin round in wasabi? I'm really scared it will create tons of small utxos

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:31

Sending a payment directly in a coinjoin uses much less block space so you pay less in mining fees. Normally you have to:

- Receive funds,
- Do a coinjoin,
- Send payment,
- Coinjoin the change left from the payment.

You can reduce it to:

- Receive funds,
- Pay in coinjoin.

Paying in coinjoin also improves your privacy in a number of different ways:

- Potential privacy problems that can occur from post-coinjoin UTXO consolidation are mitigated/eliminated
- Since the inputs you are spending aren't revealed, you can spend old coins without the recipient knowing how long you've been holding that BTC for
- Since your change output isn't revealed, the recipient doesn't know how much money you have left in your wallet

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:21

What's the difference between PayinJoin and common CoinJoin？

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:17

Yeah, your first round in Joinmarket should always be to act as a taker and sweep your nonprivate coin into the next mix depth as an equal sized output without creating change.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:12

The cheapest and most powerful way to protect your privacy is to do payments in coinjoin using the RPC: https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/using-wasabi/RPC.html#payincoinjoin

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 11:59

I couldn't check the human monitor api endpoint so I think coinjoining dosen't work with it as is

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 11:54

https://wasabist.io/ has some charts and https://x.com/LiquiSabi calculates additional stats as well.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 11:06

And the coordinatoes are available at wabisator page...

Wasabi Wallet

21 Aug 2024 02:08

Basically, you can reduce privacy by creating less outputs in a coinjoin, reduce privacy by consolidating outputs from coinjoins, or reduce privacy by registering more inputs in coinjoins. I'm not sure exactly which of these three strategies is best approach is for controlling the amount of UTXOs that end in your wallet since I have no data-driven research to back it.

Wasabi Wallet

21 Aug 2024 01:53

Yeah, my feedback wasn’t for my needs but mostly for the community.

I really think that Wasabi currently lacks important features like a 'sweep to external addresses while consolidating' (though I'm not sure if that's possible with the WabiSabi protocol). JoinMarket, on the other hand, is too difficult for most Bitcoin users.

There’s a significant market gap in the middle that could be filled with something slightly easier than JoinMarket or slightly more complete than Wasabi.

Wasabi Wallet

21 Aug 2024 01:40

Hi everyone, just a bit of feedback. I've tested Wasabi 2.0 for a few days, and to be honest, while mixing with coordinators like Kruw is nice because it's super cheap, Wasabi is not a CoinJoin tool—it's a wallet.

It creates too many UTXOs and is basically only usable if you use it as a daily driver wallet. The idea is nice, but at the moment people don't keep sats in hot wallets, so Wasabi becomes pretty unusable. People start CoinJoining with 5-10 UTXOs and end up with 30, not knowing how to send them back to their hardware wallet.

It would be really nice and a game changer to have features like 'sweep to hardware wallet,' where the user provides 3+ addresses (like in JoinMarket tumbler), and Wasabi consolidates the all the UTXOs, matching the number of addresses given by the user, and sweeps the hot wallet.

This feature would be a game changer, but as it is now, Wasabi isn't really usable (in my opinion) as a CoinJoin tool.

Thanks for your work—just some feedback 🙏

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:57

You can try BTCPay Server's coinjoin plugin if you want to modify coinjoin behavior to tailor your exact expectations. You can register up to 30 inputs per round, or specify a minimum output size, or send a payment directly in a coinjoin (which you can use to consolidate by sending to yourself).

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:53

Yeah, ~20 UTXOs seems to be the regular case for normal wallet use.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:51

Yea sure but if you put 4/5 utxos with a medium size seems after some rounds you'll have 20 utxo and atm doesen't seems it consolidate that much

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 20:50

The maximum number of outputs your client will get from a coinjoin round is 10.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:33

It's best to be cautious and reach your intended anon score target before sending a payment in a coinjoin. BTCPay Server's coinjoin plugin has a toggle checkbox for this called "Paranoid Payments"

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:22

Can I know the anoy score of PayinJoin？

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:20

@Mochisangue if someone is DMing you and telling you to delete your messages, they are a scammer who is impersonating an admin. Do not give anyone your 12 word recovery seed and do not enter it into any websites.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 13:15

If you are sending funds to Wasabi depositing, with a single UTXO is best in every case I can think of.

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 12:00

Yeah I broke the human monitor for that, you can see it from https://coinjoin.kruw.io/wabisabi/human-monitor instead

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 11:56

Coinjoining with the old link (https://btcpay.kruw.io/plugins/wabisabi-coordinator/) should redirect to the new link (https://coinjoin.kruw.io/)

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 11:08

But kruw's you will have to.copy from https://kruw.io/ - the old url listed on wabisator page didn't seem to work anymore, but the new worked fine

Wasabi Wallet

20 Aug 2024 11:06

Check the state through the coordinator url - add /wabisabi/human-monitor