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Jules-Pierre Mao, IMO, is the most realistic depiction of a billionaire in fiction
The scene that makes me say this is the one in which he talks with Errinwright about the Martian maneuvers towards Phoebe Station and issues with the quarantine around Eros. Errinwright expresses his concern that he could be sacrificing all his credibility if he takes harsher measures against breaches to the quarantine around Eros. Now, beyond this, I think such measures could imply his involvement in the deliberate release of the protomolecule, which would lead to him being convicted of crimes against humanity, the sentence for which is death. He could, in turn, implicate Mao, but I think Mao would have time to escape during Errinwright's trial.
Now, Mao, at least as far as I understand it, tries to claim that he's already made a sacrifice in losing Julie, and it was a bigger one than Errinwright would be making. Now, here's the thing (and again, this is just as I understand it): At least after she joined the OPA, he didn't much care for Julie, and was more concerned about how the daughter of Protogen's CEO joining what most of the inner planets basically consider to be Space ISIS would hurt his and his company's image. I do remember him expressing sorrow when he learned Julie was dead, but apparently, it wasn't enough for him to deny the order to subject the rest of Eros to that fate, so how much could it have been?
Errinwright could be losing everything. Mao's barely lost anything, and yet he insists his loss is greater than what Errinwright's will be. If that level of self-absorption isn't the greatest hallmark of a billionaire, I don't know what is.
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Just finished the series and started the books - thoughts.
So, I just got to the end of Series 6 (what a ride) and I started the books after eagerly waiting for my Anniversary Edition copy of LW.
The feeling I have is... not what I expected.
Almost always when I've read a book after watching/playing an adaptation I've gravitated to the book.
This time, the show feels like a distillation rather than an adaptation.
Here, I definitely am not.
The feeling I have is that the show is what actually happened, and the book is someone centuries later writing about what happened from secondary sources.
Anyone else get this feeling, or is it just a side effect of the show being that good?
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Need help
Just finished the series and found out that they are based on a book series and that was incredible,
I went online but found multiple reading orders, can you help me with choosing a reading order for the book series ?
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AI in The Expanse
Where is it? I’ve watched the show and read all books, and maybe I’ve missed something, but it’s almost non-existent. Why? Is this ever addressed?
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Belated gift idea
https://rebrickable.com/mocs/MOC-25286/EthanBrossard/mcrn-donnager/#details
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Sphere on the Tempest
I have a question after my "Tiamat's Wrath" reread.
In “Persepolis Rising”, when the Heart of the Tempest (Tempest) fires its magnetic weapon at Pallas, the time-skip event happens and a floating sphere of light and darkness appears on the corridor of the Tempest. The Tempest remains in Sol for 4 years until it is destroyed by Bobbie.
Does the 'sphere' disappear or remain with the Tempest until it is destroyed?
Thanks in advance
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The Complete Series is finally mine!
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Do you think life on Pallas and Eros analogous to Kowloon Walled City?
Pallas Station and Eros were both described as garbage dumps, the dregs of the belt. Ceres on the other hand has its less desirable areas, but is distinctly higher rent. Tycho has a booming economy and is also considerably higher rent than Pallas or Eros.
So, what would life be like in the cramped streets of these rocks? I have often thought that it would resemble the small dense shops like you see in India's cities, some are just a counter open onto the street. A cacophony of goods and services as dense as the population living there. There are probably other places with similarities, but India is what I have seen.
Then recently, I read about Kowloon Walled City and I found my answer to what life on Eros or Pallas would be like. Dense is an understatement. Chaotic passageways, hidden clubs, illicit businesses, convenience shops at the end of a hallway of apartments where a broom closet may have been. It is a fascinating place to read about. The only difference I think would be the cultural mix would be different.
Thoughts
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Doors on Hinges
I love all the realistic details that this series encapsulates but I can’t for the life of me believe that doors we see in several of the locations actually swing open on hinges. Something about scifi makes me think that all doors need to slide open, no matter how realistic the setting is trying to be.
Maybe I’m just crazy, but does this detail bother anyone else?
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It wasn’t stolen, it was just smart
“It went looking for people worthy enough to fly it”
I’m a native Texan, living 1000 miles from home. This is the first Christmas I’ve spent away from home, and it hurt a ton. I miss my family. My grandmother got me the entire series, so I am going to start leviathan wakes here right after I eat my dinner. But while waiting for my food to be delivered, I am rewatching my favorite episodes. The scene discussing Alex just played, and my heart is now ripped from my chest as I miss my home.
Merry Christmas all, I hope the drift is kind this holiday season.
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The Expanse: Syfy tries to recapture the Battlestar Galactia magic [2015]
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2015/dec/14/the-expanse-review-syfy-earth-mars-war
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Which Franchise would be the best sequel to The Expanse? Foundation? Dune? Or Warhammer 40k?
The support for Foundation TV series being the sequel to The Expanse: Trantor and planets proximal to it are descendants of inners, while the spacers and outer rim planets are descendants of the belters/OPA.
The support of Dune book series, the Empire is formed and controlled by the folding of time and space, after the loss of the ring system in Expanse Book 9, humanity is disconnected for centuries, until humans found a way to warp through space using mystical science and the discovery of spice as an alternative to bridge the remnants of humanity.
The support for Warhammer 40k, centuries after the fall of the ring system, earth is still desolate. AMOS becomes the powerful, immortal emperor that conquers and rules the last of humanity on earth, then embarks on improving humanity through knowledge and science. Engineering his primarchs to reconnect with the rest of humanity across the galaxy , starting with mechanicum on Mars.
What’s your pick? Or if there are any other franchises you would vote for?
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Transport ship Talbot Leeds
I am re-reading Leviathan Wakes (again) and for the first time really noticed the name of the transport ship that Miller and the OPA guys are taking to Eros with the nuclear charges.
Does anyone know the origin of the name Talbot Leeds?
The name to me is a Primary school in the UK.
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Adro and the Falcon
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Prisoner's Dilemma (Game Theory)
Duarte's strategy against Goths is explained in the chapter 4 of Tiamat's Wrath. It is based on the game theory known as "Prisoner's Dilemma". Here is a recent video from Veritasium about this theory, https://youtu.be/mScpHTIi-kM?si=v3uWvvitWN6ggdBD
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Question about season 1 (spoilers for season 1)
(PLEASE NO SPOILERS BEYOND SEASON 1 THANK YOU)
Hey I just got into the expanse show and even as a guy who's typically not into this whole future sci-fi genre I was hooked by episode 1, the writers did a wonderful job
here is my question though
I think it was on the very first episode in the second one, one of the main characters James holden left his girlfriend (I forgot her name) on the cantubery which than got blown up as we seen, right before it was blown up his girlfriend said "there is something you should know" or something like that, but it never got brought up again not once.
My buddie that reccomended this show to me told me it he doesn't got a clue why it was forgot about.
Without spoiling the future season will this end up being explored in season two or did the writers just completely forget about it?
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Where should i stop watching if I haven’t read all of calibans war?
Ive been wanting to watch the series but u haven’t finished Calibans war yet. Thanks!
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Yay Expansemas!
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Star Wars Easter egg s6e3
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Ashfords Arc (Spoilers Season and Book 3 onwards!)
I rewatched Season 3 and I think the showrunners did a great job of moving Ashford down a different path.
On one hand he is still as described in the books, impulsive and shortsighted, quick to violence. But the book Ashford was a disposable character. He did not do much good and I think in the books he was never mentioned again.
However I love Ashford in the series. He was still impulsive and a dislikable person (Big compliment to David Strathairn!!) but he was not mind less. His actions after his and Drummers accident in the bowel of the Behemoth saved countless lives and in my opinion justified his legendary reputation as the Ghost Knife.
In particular I loved his redemption and how close Drummer and Ashford became. And of course his final demise was a scene that made me tear up. Not something I would have expected from the Book-Ashford.
TLdR: I love the show Ashford. He is an amazing character and David Strathairn was a perfect cast for him.
Do you agree or disagree?
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Question about book Miller?
In the book, miller is more unhinged and unstable than in the show. I get that part, in the epilogue of Leviathan Wakes when Fred and Holden are remembering Miller. Holden says something about how god could’ve come to him with hot barely dressed angels and told miller that having lots of sex is a virtue and that miller could’ve made that scenario seem like something morbid and depressing. I relate to miller so I didn’t notice if his character traits were unstable or unhinged compared to how people in the book react to him. Looking back at it, I guess miller was a lunatic, cynical, depressed, disillusioned which is understandable for the life he had as a cop on ceres. the question is, was miller schizo at the end or was it a plot device, how he kept bringing up Julie all the time for the decisions he was making Also how do y’all view miller? I’m a big fan of noir genre and imo Miller is one of my favorite noir detectives in any piece of media, he embodies the archetype so well. I’ve seen the show a couple times and have only just know started reading the books but I see myself re reading levithan wakes in the future because of the miller’s storyline. I kept seeing people hype up the books, but it surpassed my expectations. The books are something else, it’s so cool how I got to experience most of the book from his POV.
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The Tempest?
Just started reading Persepolis Rising. So in season 6 episode 6 of the show, was that weird looking thing in sky of Laconia, the Tempest?
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Amos
I finally got around to listening to Tiamat's Wrath and Amos just met his fate. I dont think i've ever been so upset by a book before. I literally gasped. I may have cried a bit. Amos was my favorite character, possibly of any sci fi book I've ever read. It was so anticlimactic, but honestly kind of perfect. I don't really know why i'm making this post, but none of my friends have read the books or gotten this far yet and I needed to say this to someone.
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Mouse pad OC
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A Razorback-inspired scarf I made as a Christmas present for my sister
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Xan, Strange Dogs, and potential timeline discrepancy
So I think in Leviathan Falls, Elvi mentions Xan has been 7 years old for over 40 years, which kinda threw off my perception of the timeline.
So about 5ish years have passed since the end of Persepolis Rising (PR epilogue states Teresa is 10, and she turns 16 later in LF) and I don’t think PR took more than a couple months (could be wrong, just guessing)
Then we have the time jump from BA to PR which is commonly stated as 30 years (Tho Cortazar mentions in the prologue its been NEARLY 3 decades, but of course some time likely passed after the prologue)
So thats 36ish years at the end of BA, which would have to mean Strange Dogs has to take place before Nemesis Games correct? I thought it was a common belief that Strange Dogs took place after BA.
I also just remembered Cara states people have been on Laconia for about 8 years, and theres just no way Nemesis games is that much later after the end of Abaddons Gate.
I guess its also just possible that Elvi and/or Cara were just flat out wrong.
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Do James S.A Corey have any articles or advice about writing?
Might be a personal opinion, but The Expanse has some of the best writing styles and characters I’ve ever found. I’m picky about books for better or worse and usually pass on books if I don’t like the writing style enough. So it’s been a year since finishing the series and I’ve been spoiled by The Expanse. Every book I read inevitably gets compared to it.
Despite the extensive world building and intricate plots, I’d say The Expanse is very narrator driven. Everything that happens is filtered through the character’s lens and the result is a limited third person that really throws you into the world these people live in.
Every character comes to life, even the small or side ones. Even ones we only get descriptions of and never see inside their heads.
I noticed that one of the tricks they seem to use is starting a chapter or scene with the narrator’s thoughts, then describe the scene later in the middle of events. So when we enter the conflict or action, we’re fully in the experience of our character. It’s not just boring details and info thrown at us.
> >!“It was the fifth week of Trejo’s combination press tour and recon quest of the Sol system . . . After the hard weeks-long burn out from Laconia, it was exhausting. He wanted nothing more than a stiff drink and eight hours in his bed. Or twenty. Instead, he was on a video call with spoilers. . . . The politicians were lying through their smiles. Trejo was threatening through his.”!< Section from Leviathan Falls, not spoilery
It transports you into the ongoing event through the head and body of the character. And so you experience not just the action and plot but another fictional human as well. I’m just in awe and appreciation of their writing.
Do the authors have any writing advice released anywhere? I’ve liked to write all my life and like to learn by studying the authors I like. Studying the text like this is one way but it’d be nice to read explicit advice!
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I just lost interest in one of my favourite shows of all time!
Just started with the Cibola Burn, and tried to watch s04e01 again and NOTHING MAKES ANY FUCKING SENSE ANYMORE. It's like I'm watching a different show altogether, I like the fact that they tried to retain a few critical plot points yet the death of Carlos Bull Baca and Ashford's killings in cold blood cannot possibly be upped anymore even with as strong a character as Drummer's.
I do realise that any book will ALWAYS be better than its on-screen adaptation, and this is just a pointless rant, yet I just had to admit it that the show has drifted wide apart from the books so much so that I cannot bring myself to watch it anymore and it is heartbreaking and sucks big fucking time!
End rant.
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Spoiler Murtry did nothing wrong.
I'm at about chapter 14 of Cibola Burn, and I went into this thinking I'd dislike Murtry as much as I did with his portrayal in the show, but you know what? His only real crime so far (and I'm expecting even when shit goes south) is antagonizing Holden.
Sure, Amos and Proto-Miller have both clocked him as a murderer and a psychopath, and yeah, they may be right, but he's on New Terra to do a job. And the only reason he's even stepped foot planetside is because a group of terrorists keep using violence to try and subvert what is well and truly a scientific (and mineral survey I suppose) expedition.
That's not to say that all the Illus belters are bad, or even that they have no reason to distrust RCE's actions and involvement, cause that's just not true. But Coop and his little band of psychos are, and potentially have been in the past, terrorists. You don't get to blow shit up, killing people in the process, and play the victim card. Coop's bullshit dragged the whole colony down with him, and if they had just played along for a while, maybe RCE would've let them keep their colony, their mining rights in and around their domain, and everyone could've shared and played nice with each other in the end.
But no. They get Holden and his switch-flipping hitchhiker involved, and ruin everything for everyone. (Show meta, sorry lol) I know that belters have good reason to distrust and hate the inners and their corporations, but on certain levels, the OPA and the belt needs to grow the fuck up, get their shit together, and start at least pretending they can be a respectable governing body. "Milowda na animals". Then stop acting like it.
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Why do the Expanse books feel real?
One aspect of the book series that seems underappreciated to me is how 'real' the world feels, but without pages of world building.
When I say real, I mean that -
- The in-universe rules are consistent
- Characters share information or context without it feeling like exposition
- Technology, in particular is about 2-3 leaps ahead of present day
All of this happens despite significant economy of words. I agree that it is a 9 part series and hence, pretty long on its own. But in contrast to say Dune or GRRM's works in fantasy, the story moves much faster without necessarily compromising on the world building. I know and agree that this comparison to Dune or GRRM isn't entirely fair because the Expanse is structured as a space opera rather than high fantasy.
I personally feel that the reason why this real-ness works is because -
- Most obviously, the writing is direct. The multi-POV format works in allowing you character thoughts and motivation, especially 6-8 main characters in each book. This is true for GRRM too, but unlike his longer term vision of the reader uncovering mysteries, JSAC are focused more on the readers empathising and emoting with the characters here.
- Exposition happens as the character experiences or applies information rather than it preceding it - so again - more drama than discovering information for the reader.
- General adherence to rules of Physics and Math make it easier to set boundary conditions. Barring say, Goths or Epstein drives or spinning asteroids or overall energy/resource consumption requirement for billions to live in space, everything else seems to function well within bounds of current day tech and/or theory. Even the magical/alien protomolecule builders testing the limits of conventional physics acts within a rough set of rules.
- The story honestly isn't about the 'story', the focus is always the characters. My favourite example is the Valkyrie moment - it's not about dark matter explosions or the foreshadowing that preceded it two books ago. It's about the moment being perfectly in synch with the character and how she would live and die. When her best friend grieves, you feel just as hurt and feel the grief expressed in his POV just so well.
Curious to know your thoughts and thanks for all the fun JSAC!
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Just one note - my comparison to other works of fiction above are not to highlight merits or demerits of the series itself, but just to illustrate the difference in approaches between these works / genre. Don't come at me Dune-bros.
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